Why Every Great Investor Should Ask, “What Pisses Me Off?”

David:
This is the BiggerPockets podcast show, 617.

Rich:
For me, it’s really looking at what is my unique ability, what are my greatest strengths, and what is it that I love doing? What am I really good at, and how can I do more of that? And the only way for me to do more of that personally, is to have someone else handle the other stuff. And there’s people who love bookkeeping. I can do it, but I don’t love it. So hiring someone who is a bookkeeper who loves bookkeeping, who is totally into reconciling and getting everything right.

David:
What’s going on, everyone. This is David Green, your host of the BiggerPockets real estate podcast, joined today by my co-host, Rob Abasolo. In today’s show, Rob and I are interviewing Rich Fettke, one of the owners of the RealWealth network, along with his wife, Kathy Fettke, who are both sort of in the BiggerPockets world now, as contributors and influencers. And we talk a lot about leadership, about scaling, and a little bit about where you could be putting your money. Rob, how are you doing today?

Rob:
I want to flip this around and ask, how are you doing, man? That was a very, very soft intro. Very asthma of you.

David:
Less energy than I typically bring. I’m actually experimenting with this. I typically have one speed. I come in like a Tasmanian devil and I hammer away, and I’m wondering if a softer approach might be good at times. How’s it coming across so far?

Rob:
It’s good. It’s good. It’s a little different. It’s a little different than normal, but it’s very soothing, I guess. I wouldn’t mind it.

David:
The fear is I’m going to put our audience to sleep being too soothing, rather than hammering them in the face with value.

Rob:
That’s true. But they would sleep like a baby though. So I’m going to listen to this podcast after it comes out and I’ll report back, I’ll let you know. I’ll let you know how my sleep was.

David:
You don’t actually don’t have to, I can tell what you think, you don’t like it, because you’re doing that thing you do when you’re like, I don’t hate it.

Rob:
No, I didn’t say that.

David:
Which is not saying I don’t like it.

Rob:
I didn’t say that, no.

David:
Yeah, I know, but your tone said it, Rob. It’s okay. I’m sorry [crosstalk 00:01:56]

Rob:
I love it, man. I love it, okay?

David:
Yeah.

Rob:
I love it.

David:
I did a show with the Real Estate Rookie podcast yesterday, which will probably be coming out around the same time as this one. And it was just very high energy. And when I got done I’m like, man, I seem to only have one gear. In my regular life, I don’t go that hard. So it opened up these doors of like, well, how should I be interacting? Because if this was a three hour podcast, I probably would be more like this, but we’re trying to hammer out as much value as we can in a short… so maybe our guests could let us know in the comments below, do you like high energy Dave or low energy Dave?

Rob:
All right. Well, speaking of delivering value, I think we’ve got quite the show today with Rich, man. He just wrote a book, it’s called The Wise Investor. It’s out now. You can go and buy the ebook on Amazon, I believe. And yeah, man, it was a really good conversation. We talked about setting your mindset, just I think that’s really important whenever you’re scaling a company. And he really talked about not just scaling the operations of the company, but scaling the actual culture of it, which is something that a lot of people don’t talk about. And that resonated a lot with me, because I’m scaling a lot of my own real estate operations now, and so I’m definitely going to be taking a lot of that to heart.
We also talked about confronting your inner gremlin, which was an interesting approach, which is just like, to put it simply, not just listening to that voice in your head that tells you not to do something, but legitimately confronting it. So if it says, no, don’t do that, you ask it back. You then become the voice in that voice’s head and say, why not? You tell me, why not? And then from there, actually getting an answer and clarity as to what’s actually preventing you from moving on in your real estate journey. So a lot of good little tidbits all throughout.

David:
Yeah. And Rich has been in the game for a little bit, so this isn’t a spring chicken. He’s kind of giving us a good experienced sage perspective on how to get started, how to scale, what type of people you want in your organization. And I really liked how we talked about the values the person brings. It’s hire and fire according to the value. So this is a really relevant episode if you’ve had a little bit of success, you’ve got a couple properties, and now you’re like, how can I get more?
And that is a good segue into today’s quick tip. So today Rich talked about how before he can hire someone to know if they’re the right fit for the company, they have to know what their values are. He frequently talked about asking questions of the people that work for you, saying, what do you want? Well, if you don’t know what you want and you don’t know what your values are, how can you make sure that you’re aligned with the right group? So what Rob and I are recommending is that you take a minute to sit down and you ask yourself, what are the things that I value? What do I want out of this relationship? And get clear on who you are and who you want to be, so you can make a better choice about where you should be.

Rob:
That’s really good. Couldn’t say it better.

David:
All right, Rob, before we get into the show, anything you want to add?

Rob:
No, that’s a really good quick tip. You know why? Because I think, look, man, for me, I’m just like, my mind is just like a floating ether of ideas. And so literally bringing some level of organization to your life and to your values, and actually writing stuff out can really just clarify who you actually are as an investor.

David:
Yeah.

Rob:
Didn’t mean to get so profound in the intro, but here we are.

David:
Sometimes you can’t help it. A man like you, with the wisdom of Seneca mixed with Marcus Aurelius, can’t really help but be profound and sage in most of what you say.

Rob:
There you have it.

David:
You’re uncomfortable with compliments. Look at you. You blushed a little bit there.

Rob:
No, no, no. That’s the purple light. It looks like I’m blushing, but it’s the hair light that I use for my studio.

David:
Fair enough. All right, let’s bring in Rich. Rich Fettke, welcome to the BiggerPockets Podcast. How are you today?

Rich:
I’m doing awesome, man. I started the day with a morning surf session with Kathy, my wife, so I’m pretty stoked right now. And great to be here.

David:
So is this a Jocko thing, where you wake up at 4:00 AM, you go get a workout in, then you go surfing. You save an indigenous people from a horrible tribal warlord, you play some guitar, you do some jujitsu, and then it’s 9:30 and you go have your coffee and the rest of the world’s waking up?

Rich:
Exactly. Well, I also take a picture of my watch and I post it, and then I do a picture of all the sweat on the floor too. So, yeah.

David:
And then put aftermath or get some as your caption.

Rich:
Yeah, exactly. Get after it.

David:
Yeah. Rob, I never… are you a morning person, Rob?

Rob:
Not really. I’m kind of forced into it, because I have kids. My youngest today, Brooke, he started crying at 7:30, and then my wife gave me the morning swat, the you’re up.

David:
You go do it.

Rob:
It’s your turn. And so I was a morning person today, but not by choice.

Rich:
That’s how I learned to be a morning person, was having kids.

Rob:
Yeah, the morning swat.

David:
Maybe that’s how I’ve been able to avoid it for so long. Don’t have kids, so I get to…

Rich:
There you go.

David:
… avoid that. So, Rich, for people that haven’t heard about you, can you give us a little bit of a summary of what you do, the role that you and your wife play in your business, and then we’ll get into our show today?

Rich:
Absolutely, yeah. So my main role is the leadership of the business, as far as overseeing the culture, our core values, our purpose, our mission, making sure we’re on track, that everyone’s communicating effectively. That’s been the main focus, definitely on the marketing side too. When RealWealth started, I was, my official title was chief support guy. So when Kathy needed a website, I created the first website, and then the second website. When iTunes came out with this thing called podcasts, I took her radio show and burned the CD into an MP3 and uploaded it to iTunes. And so that’s kind of been my role, kind of chief support guy.

Rob:
Every company needs a CSG.

Rich:
That’s exactly it. That’s a nice title.

David:
How would you describe what your company does?

Rich:
RealWealth, two things really. We basically help people create real wealth, financial freedom through investing in real estate. So basically, the way we do it is we… I’m a broker, so we refer people to other brokers in markets, emerging markets, where they can buy mostly single family properties, one to four units, and that cash flow. Because we started in California, and it’s kind of hard to cash flow around here. So helping investors move out of California, move their money into usually the Southeast and things like that. So that’s one part of the business. And then the other part of the business is syndicating mostly ground up residential development.

Rob:
Wow. Okay, so you get to A, advise people on it, but B, you’re still really quite heavily invested in the real estate space.

Rich:
Oh, very much. Yeah. Very much. And Kathy and I invest too, and we walk the talk. Yeah, and we’re GPs in these syndications, so we invest in those. And yeah, we love it.

Rob:
About how many syndications are you guys… how has that changed over the course of this company? Are you guys doing more and more now? Are you doing less now, but much bigger deals? How has that really shifted since… how long has RealWealth sort of been a company?

Rich:
We started in 2003. I can tell you the story about that. But started way back then, and started in the kind of the mortgage space. Kathy was a mortgage broker, so we started to help people get into properties that way, mostly for the mortgage. Helped them to… so Kathy [inaudible 00:08:46] the mortgage. And then we started to help people get in with the referral system.
But with the syndications, that wasn’t until 2010 that we started doing that. Broke all the rules. So we didn’t realize SEC rules and everything back then. But it went well. So we usually do two or three good size projects a year. Lately, right now we don’t have a really good acquisitions person, so everything’s on pause. If you don’t have a good acquisitions person who can really underwrite a deal, which we’ve learned from our mistakes, don’t do it. So right now, that’s kind of on pause. We’re just managing the current syndications that we have.

Rob:
That’s awesome, man. So, I mean, it starts really stacking up. Three syndications a year, you do that over and over and over again, I mean, that really starts snowballing at a very alarming rate.

Rich:
Yeah. Because investors bring their capital back when they get their capital returned, and they say, okay, I want to invest in this next project. Yeah, it’s really cool.

Rob:
It’s a very exciting thing. I’m finally starting to syndicate and doing funds and everything. And I’m really year one on all this, but you can start to see the trajectory of it. And you start to really understand that a team, you need a team, right? A team is so pivotal to actually successfully doing this.

Rich:
100%, Yeah. Yeah. The only thing more important than a good idea is a team that can see it through. I constantly say that to my team.

Rob:
Yeah. Anyone can think of an idea, but not everyone can execute.

David:
God, that’s such a good line. Rob, that should be on your tombstone, because that’s the truth. I think we always tell people, like where I see this come up is people say, you need a system. So everyone writes down, need systems. Or I’ll hear people say, I need to work on my systems. And I think what that typically appears to us as, is I need to write down all the stuff that needs to be done and create a spreadsheet, a checklist, some framework to operate off. And that is important. You do need that. But the fallacy is when people believe, well, it’s done once you did that. That you’re just going to hand it to someone and they’re going to do it. Half of a system is having the framework. The other half is getting a human being that is good at executing that system.
And I don’t know why that’s, we don’t think of it naturally, but everything’s in life like that. You can tell a baseball player, okay, your job is to hit the ball, but he gets paid on how well he can hit the ball. And that’s what it’s like in a business, is you need a human being that can actually execute the system that you created. And that is hard. This is one of the things that stops people from scaling. So I know, Rich, you’re really big in leadership. You’re really big in delegating this stuff and keeping things running. Can you share with us some of the things you’ve learned about what it takes to make a team work, and maybe what some of the common misconceptions that people believe are that turned out not to be true?

Rich:
Absolutely. Yeah. No, it’s absolutely huge. It’s like we, as real estate investors, we’re always looking at creating freedom, right? Freedom of time, freedom of money. And if you don’t have a team, you’re not going to create freedom of time. You’re going to try to do everything yourself. And I think that’s the big mistake that so many people do. Like you said, they try to create systems, but they’re systems for them. And they’re trying to do it, and trying to do all the work. They’re not letting go.
And honestly, it’s finding people who are better and more talented and more skilled and more knowledgeable in areas. Like we have an amazing girl who does our SEO, she’s phenomenal, and I don’t know anything about it. We have someone else who just goes out and is our property team director, and he oversees our property team. So yeah, it’s key. It’s the only way to create leverage, the only way to grow something beyond yourself, and the only way to leave a legacy, is to have a good team that can follow through, that are connected. And the only way you’re going to have that is to have a really strong, solid culture. I think that’s key.

David:
So how are we defining culture? If someone says like, well, what is it I’m actually trying to do, how would you describe that?

Rich:
Culture, to me, it’s the vibe, right?

Rob:
Nice.

Rich:
So it’s kind of the vibe, the way everyone kind of connects, and they feel good. And not just feel good around, just happy, you want that, but feel good in that… one of our core values at RealWealth is connection. That’s one of our core values. It’s very important to it. Not only do we connect people with properties and connect people with education, but we are connected as a team. That’s really huge. So we’re like family, we’re stronger and better together.
So that’s what I see it as culture, it’s when people love coming to work. We’re a remote company. We’ve been a remote company for about 12 years now. Our employees are all over the country. We’ve been as many as 27 employees. Right now we’re about 22. So empowering people to be leaders and to have that culture of accountability, I think that’s key too, where people do what they say they’re going to do, they do it on time, but they don’t have someone looking over their shoulder just being that jerk manager.

Rob:
Definitely. Well, actually I kind of want to ask you about this, because the actual culture of working has shifted significantly in the past two years. So can you tell us a little bit about how you felt the culture of your company was going, and then how did the pandemic change that? What kind of changes did that spur on in your philosophy and the way you ran the company?

Rich:
That’s a great question. It was reaffirming, the pandemic. Because it was interesting, because I was doing an interview soon after the pandemic hit now, and the interviewer’s basically just like, so how is it being a remote company now because of the pandemic? And I’ve been like, we’ve been practicing for 10 years. It’s really cool. And in the beginning, there was some growing pains, for sure, but there’s something around… So going into the pandemic, we were like, oh, we got this.
The only shift for us is we used to do live events, two live events every month. We’d do one in San Francisco area, one down in Southern California. And obviously we had to call those off and stop. We haven’t done a live event for two and a half years now. We’re doing our first live event next month, so excited about that. But that was a big one. It was just shifting from that. And then we’re like, okay, so how are we going to do events? How are we going to have people feel connected? How are they going to get to meet the property teams or learn more about a syndication? And we’re great technology, it’s amazing. So we use Basecamp for all our project management. We use GoTo Meeting and Zoom for our meetings. Everyone has our cameras on, just like this, so we can see each other. So I think that’s a big part of the culture.

Rob:
So I know you talk a lot about mindset, that’s one of your big philosophies. Can you tell us a little bit about that pillar in your philosophy of culture, or kind of in your investing strategy. Walk us through your philosophy on how mindset impacts the overall culture and your personal investing strategy?

Rich:
I think it even goes beyond mindset. It’s definitely mindset is huge. That is absolutely massive, and how we think creates our life. There’s no doubt about it. I think it’s more about becoming the best version of yourself. To run a good solid company, you have to be a good solid leader. And for everyone in the company, for them to be their best, and show up the best work-wise, it’s them becoming the best version of themselves.
I mean, the bottom line is like, when we get better, everything around us gets better, right? It’s like when you work on yourself and you really get clear about what is that best version of me, how do I want to show up, how do I want to give? If an obstacle comes at me, a challenge, do I crumble? Do I, woe is me? Or do I look at that challenge as an opportunity, as an adventure, as something that’s going to make me stronger and better? And so I think it starts with you, and getting really clear on who are you at your best? Who is that best self, and what are those core values that are important to you? What do you really believe in? What do you focus on? Get that solid first, and then that carries over to your business.
So Kathy and I got really clear on what are our core values. We met in a personal development workshop, so we did a lot of work on this, core values and goals and all that stuff. So we carried that over. And when we set the core values for our company, we didn’t just do that from us just saying, these are the core values, we came at it and said, these are the core values that are most important to us. What about you guys? This is when our team was like 10 people, but we had everyone… we had a whiteboard, we were writing all the core values, what’s important. And we did the combining them all into one, and then boil it down to just a handful of core values. So I think it starts with that. It’s that mindset of becoming the best version of yourself first, and then that shows up, and then you create a great company based on awesome core values.

Rob:
So when you’re looking at challenges as problems, that’s kind of one of the things that you’re talking about here, and looking to them as a challenge as an adventure, is there an actionable tip that you can give someone here? Because on the surface, it’s pretty easy to say like, Hey, face your challenge here and make it an adventure. But is there kind of a tip you can lend to the audience for actually being able to run full force towards this mindset, if you will?

Rich:
Oh, yeah, absolutely. So before we created RealWealth, I was a business and personal coach. I got into that industry early, 1995. And because of that, just getting into it early and really learning as a baseline. And the one thing I’ve seen, it doesn’t matter, I’ve coached CEOs and homemakers, and everything from artists to attorneys, and every single person I’ve ever coached, including me, has this little voice in their head. It’s this little, I like to call it the gremlin. It’s this itty bitty committee inside our head, right? It beats us up. It tells us, you’re not enough. You can’t do that. You’re going to fail. Look at this person invested over here, and they failed. Same thing’s going to happen to you. All this stuff. Every single person.
So I think it really comes down to that first, it’s identifying what is that gremlin? And the gremlin’s super powerful when it’s in our subconscious mind, right? And it’s always been there to try to protect us. Protect us from embarrassment and failure and loss. But sometimes it over protects. So I think it’s just, for me, I think the best process is to just kind of check in on a regular basis. If you’re feeling something in your body, you’re feeling butterflies or you’re feeling you’re clenching your jaw. I mean, obviously I had some gremlins before this interview. It’s like, Rich, you’re going to be on BiggerPockets. My gremlin starts saying, you don’t know enough about multifamily. You don’t know enough about the economy. It’s like, okay. So I just stop. You take a super deep breath in, which actually stimulates your vagus nerve, and it affects your prefrontal cortex of your brain. It slows down your heart rate. It calms you, and it has you see things in a different way.
So I think that way of processing that gremlin, and just taking a deep breath and saying, okay, Hey, Mr. Gremlin, or Ms. Gremlin, what’s going on here? What do you need from me? What are you trying to protect me from? What’s the warning signal here? And most often, that little voice will just say, I’m afraid of this. Or you need to do this, or you need to be aware of this. And then you say, okay, cool, anything else? And it seems weird. It seems kind of hokey or woo-woo or something. But when you do it, you get that answer from your subconscious mind, which is so much more powerful than that conscious mind, and you start to get these new answers about, oh, I see how I can move into this. So I think that’s a really powerful tool that I’ve seen work over the last 25 years as a coach.

David:
So Rich, if I know, Hey, I need to figure out what my core values are before I know what the right team to join or the right company to work for or investment strategy pursue is, but I’ve got shiny object syndrome. Which typically is like, I don’t like where I am, so everything feels better than this. Right? What advice do you have for somebody who could figure out what will be the right road for them, when at that point, when they’re that hungry, everything looks good?

Rich:
That’s a really good point. Yeah. So core values are like, they’re intrinsic. They’re almost born with us, and kind of built into us, and they evolve over our life. They get deeper and stronger. So I mean, one way to look at core values is like, look at what pisses you off. What pisses you off? What frustrates you? What really gets you going? And then flip that over, and on the other side of that is a core value.
So if dishonest people really piss you off, people who lie, people who are manipulating stuff. You flip that over, and there’s going to be a core value of either honesty or integrity or both. It could be something like that. For me, one of my core values is optimism. Seeing a brighter future, having hope. Let’s look for the good, let’s look for this is where things are going. That’s a core value of me, because flip that over, I hate it, it drives me crazy when people are victims, when they complain, when they focus on the negative. So I flipped that over, and it’s like optimism. And that’s one of our core values at RealWealth.

David:
In the last year or so, when did it start? I think it started with the whole COVID thing, because everybody got so entrenched in their side. Rob and I were talking about this when we were in Scottsdale.

Rich:
It’s crazy, yeah.

David:
It’s clearly polarizing, to say the least, everything that happens, right? Like it’s very uncommon that two people will sit down and be like, this is what I see. And someone else says, I see it like this. Oh, that’s interesting. How do you deal with this element of it? I do it this way. Right? It’s always just, you start screaming at the other side and digging yourself in deeper.

Rich:
Yeah.

David:
And I noticed that when I watch the news, I never really see somebody make something up out of thin air that is not true at all. It’s more that they take a nuanced issue, they highlight the side of it that supports that opinion, and then they just pound that side and ignore the other side. Right? And I’ve kind of come to the understanding that as a human being, this is the way people lie, is they don’t just make something up. You don’t say things like, the sky is green, and just expect people to believe you. You take out the part of the argument that shows a different side than what you see, and you just keep hammering that one side.
So applying that to other parts of life, your optimism argument starts to make sense. Is life good or is life bad? It’s both. There’s horrible things that happen all the time. There’s beautiful things that happen all the time. It’s which side we choose to focus on that determines the reality we’re going to have. Right? So there’s always a reason to be negative, and there’s also always a reason to be positive. So I wanted to kind of get… so you seem like you’re interested in this topic. Can you share some of the things that you’ve had to overcome to get to the point you’re at, where you are able to use that muscle that can see the positive in a situation?

Rich:
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, there’s two things that are coming up big. One is that book, Think Different? Think Again. It’s called Think Again.

David:
Adam Grant?

Rich:
It’s so good. Adam Grant, yeah, exactly. Think Again. And I just love the… I can’t remember it exactly, but there’s the three Ps. There’s the politician… it’s like where people come from. They’re either the politician, they’re trying to work it to manipulate and get their way. There’s the preacher, who’s just like, this is the way it is, and they’re preaching it and they just don’t want to hear anything else. I forget what the third P is now. Oh, the prosecutor. Yeah. So there’s the prosecutor, they have all their facts and they come at it and they just start drilling down with all their facts that they’ve memorized, and trying to make you wrong and then write and all that.
And so his fourth one, he says is to be a scientist. Be a scientist, where you look at things more neutrally. You don’t take that side, and you’re just like, okay. So I think that’s a powerful one. That was a great book for me, to have me just going through the whole COVID and just everything. I mean, just the craziness. It’s like the social dilemma, right? We get these feeds, and they just start feeding us on social media and everything, with all the stuff that’s click bait. And then people start seeing their whole story, their whole narrative goes down this way or this way. So I think that’s huge.
And then it goes way back into stoicism, 2000 years ago, that was inspired Victor Frankel. And he said something about… if I can remember that, he said, between stimulus and response, there’s a pause. And then it’s that moment, and we have the moment, in that moment is our power to choose our response. So you get the stimulus and then you get the response. But in that moment between those, you get to choose how you want show up, how you want it to affect you. And I think that’s huge. He says something about in that moment, in that response lies our power and our freedom.
So that is huge for me, and it has affected me in a big way going through this. And yeah, it gets heated. Heated with relatives, heated with friends, people with their opinions. And they’re so committed to being right, and they get into these arguments. And to be able to just pause and do the same thing, use that vagus nerve and to breathe deeply and calm down and just be like, huh, and just be curious. So I’m actually going to get a tattoo, my first tattoo on my wrist of a question mark, because it’s the one thing that I’ve learned, is being curious is the most powerful response to anything. Instead of being like, I’m right. I’m trying to prove myself right. Talking too much and all that stuff. So it’s coming back to being curious. I think that’s the way to handle it.

Rob:
Yeah, for sure. Well, I mean, I think we’re all recalibrating, and we’re finally at a place where we’re back a little bit. We can all converse, and I think there’s a lot more positivity that comes from conversing in person too. That’s actually one of the things that I really miss, one of the only things I really miss about my nine to five, was the interacting with people and talking to people and meeting with people. That was a very important aspect of the culture of my company.

Rich:
Yeah.

Rob:
I was really just a big fan of that. So I actually kind of want to jump back into that a little bit, and sort of talk about, it seems like you have a relatively decent staff, with 22 people. So I’m kind of curious, are you effectively… like when is the next hire come for you? Because I know that a big part about scaling, A, both the company and the culture, there’s got to be some delegation that comes along. So is every new hire for you, is that just another way for you to delegate something that you can’t do? Or is it just a numbers game, where you just need more people to kind of handle some of the smaller tasks?

Rich:
For me, it’s really looking at what is my unique ability, what are my greatest strengths, and what is it that I love doing? What am I really good at, and how can I do more of that? And the only way for me to do more of that personally, is to have someone else handle the other stuff. And there’s people who love bookkeeping. I can do it, but I don’t love it. So hiring someone who is a bookkeeper who loves bookkeeping, who is totally into reconciling and getting everything right, I mean, it’s a move like that. So yeah, we’re hiring right now too. Like I said, I’m looking for a really good underwriter for our syndication. Someone who really understands ground up development, residential development, to really underwrite these deals. So that’s a big one, and that’s an area where I’m pretty lost in. Don’t have me do the underwriting, it’s not going to work out too well.
And then we’re looking for someone who is managing some of the property teams. These properties that we refer, and the brokers refer people to for buying investment properties, hiring another person who’s kind of like the boots on the ground, out in that market, where they can actually go and look at the quality of the properties, qualities of the rehab if it’s a rehab, or the quality of a new build if it’s a new build. So yeah, I think that’s it. And when we do hire, we hire to our values. And when we fire, we fire to our values. So we look at, when we’re doing an interview, we might say something like, tell me about a time in your life when you were challenged on the integrity side of things, when you really had to apply this core value of integrity. And boom, you put them right on the spot and see what they come up with, and see where they are with that.

Rob:
Sure. Yeah, hire and fire based on your values. I really like that. And I think this is a really interesting topic, certainly because I imagine when you’re a little bit smaller, like myself, it’s really tough to let go of control. Because my operation runs well, but it does require me to be there. Right? And so I feel like every new person I bring on to the team, it’s letting go a little bit of the… it seems like the quality, but I know that’s not really how it goes. For you, can you tell me about your thoughts here? Like when you hire someone and you’re saying you don’t want to do the underwriting or you don’t want to do the bookkeeping, do you ever feel like you’re just letting go of a small aspect of control of your company?

Rich:
Yes, absolutely. That’s part of the whole dilemma, right? Letting go of the vine, and then letting go and trusting. But there’s no way to scale a company. You’re not an entrepreneur if you’re not letting go, and you’re not building a company, you’re not building a business if you’re not letting go, because you’re going to be just stuck. And you only have so many hours in the day, and if you’re trying to do it all yourself, there’s just no way you’re going to do it. So that’s where it’s like, that’s letting go of control, but it’s not letting go of quality.
So I think the quality piece is really onboarding someone really well. So if there’s something that you’re doing now, Rob, right? It’s like, basically, you mentor that person. You have them right there, kind of, there mirroring you. And then, one of the most powerful things, I think, is to say, instead of saying, do it this way, do it this way, you give them some basic training, but then you say, okay, if you’re going to do this on your own and I wasn’t here, what would you do? And see what they come up with. And then they might say, oh, I would do it this way. And you’re like, oh, that’s good, that’s better than I thought of. Or they might say, I’d do it this way. You go, well, okay, what’s another way you could do it. Right? What’s another way.
But that empowers them to really see this new hire as someone who’s creative and resourceful, and not make the assumption that you have to micromanage them and tell them how to do everything. So that’s our whole culture at RealWealth. And that’s coming from a coaching background and seeing my clients as creative and resourceful and whole, knowing that they can find the answers. We carry that. And Kathy’s a certified coach as well. We carry that same thing over into our training and our development of our team, where we empower people to just really figure it out on their own, and ask for help when they need it. But often you get surprised. You’re like, whoa, okay, you figured it out. You did a better job than I would’ve done.

Rob:
So would you say then you’re a relatively large believer in the idea of autonomy then?

Rich:
Huge. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to create a company that I would want to work at. I’ve always been self-employed. I’ve never had a regular nine to five. Never been a W2. And I just could not create a company where people felt like they were stuck. Feeling stuck, feeling talked down to, being told what to do. Freedom’s a huge value for me, so basically that’s the approach we took. And Kathy’s the same way, don’t tell her what to do. So it’s just kind of like empowering people. There’s the autonomy. And everyone has their three or four big goals every quarter, and their deliverables every week. So there is accountability. There’s no doubt about it. So we know, and it’s not like we’re waiting until the end of the year and being like, whoa, you didn’t do anything. We’re very clear on what people are doing and what they’re up to, and that they’re moving the needle.

Rob:
100%. I think one of the biggest… this is where I’m not really great. I’m working on this, right? I’m working on hiring and delegating and building out my team. I think what can really just make a big difference in that autonomy, is you just really have to… actually, I think David told me this, you have to develop, not delegate. And so I think there’s a really important aspect of onboarding someone and actually developing them and setting them up. Right? So it’s not just like, all right, go figure it out. It’s a pretty intensive training for the first week, two, three, whatever you feel is appropriate, and then you give the autonomy. Because there have been many times where I’ve been hired in a company, it was my first day, and they’re like, well, here you go.

Rich:
Go figure it out.

Rob:
And I’m like, I literally don’t know what this is. And I was an advertising copywriter, so you can imagine if I get dropped into a, I don’t know, a Peloton group, and they’re like, oh, go, write an ad for this. I’m like, I don’t know anything about Peloton.

Rich:
Right, yeah.

Rob:
So I think developing someone right out the gate, for me, seems to be what can really be the game changer and the idea of autonomy.

Rich:
Yeah. It’s the more time you put up front, and clarity, and constantly asking that person, like I was saying, how would you do this, and show me what you’ve done, and do you have any questions for me? Anything you need? Am I giving you the training and development and the resources that you need? Yeah, I think a lot of time upfront and all of a sudden, then it’s amazing. And then you empower this person, and they learn how to be a leader. And then you got a whole culture of awesome leaders who can figure things out on their own and they don’t need you.

David:
Yeah. I’ve gotten over that. I’m pretty happy not being needed now. It’s hard when I’m always needed.

Rich:
Good.

David:
But yeah, there is a point, absolutely, where it feels good to be needed about something, and when that’s best for the business, to let go becomes a personal challenge. I wanted to ask you, let’s say somebody that works with you and Kathy, they’re a part of the RealWealth network, and they decide they need to start hiring because they’re doing so well with buying some single family homes. What do you think is a good first hire for that investor that’s picking up some steam?

Rich:
Oh, I mean, it really is dependent on them, but overall, just broad sweep, bookkeeper. Honestly, I think a lot of people don’t track their numbers well, they don’t know their numbers. They get behind on it. It’s a should. It’s like, I should really get in there and really go over my portfolio. I should really be crunching these numbers. I should really be looking at how I’m doing with returns and all this stuff. So, I mean, next to a property manager, that’s number one, having a property manager, but I would say the bookkeeper would be number two. Someone who’s really good at it.

David:
Rob, what about you? What have you found was the hire that made the biggest difference for you in scaling?

Rob:
An assistant.

David:
Okay, nice.

Rob:
I was really just bursting at the seams here, just doing everything, right? Managing emails and responding to people on my rentals on Airbnb, and writing YouTube descriptions and titles. And oh, man, it just got to the point where I really just felt underwater all the time. And everyone always talks about how an assistant is pivotal, right? And can really change a lot for you. And I knew it, but the problem with hiring my assistant was that I had to train her on everything that I do as good as I do it. And that’s always the hard and the scary part, because you’re like, can I do that?

Rich:
Right.

Rob:
And I did. She’s really great. She’s really, really, really great. And now that I don’t have to worry about a lot of these much smaller tasks in my life, every single day, and she’s kind of rocking and rolling with that every day, it opens up my brain power to be able to just focus on some of the bigger deals that I have. Right? Syndications and funds and new builds and constructions. And now that I’ve got that time back, it’s a game changer for me. Sometimes I want to hire another one.

Rich:
Now I’m asking the questions, but what’s the biggest challenge for you around kind of onboarding and working with an assistant? Has it been easy?

Rob:
Only because she has been really great about being like, Hey, I need this. You tell me this now.

Rich:
Forced accountability.

Rob:
Yeah. I mean, I told her that it’s her job literally to annoy me, because I was like, I don’t ever want you to feel like you’re annoying me. Because that is very common, right? I’ve had another assistant before, and she was great too, but it was always meant to be a two month thing. And she was always like, oh, I just didn’t want to bother you. I’m like, no, no, no, no, you need to bother me.

Rich:
Awesome.

Rob:
If you don’t bother me, things will not get done, and I will just ignore you. So I think the hard part with hiring somebody, just in general, especially someone like an assistant, is that it forces a level of organization that I just don’t have. Detailing the systems, right? I know the systems, I made them up, but I never wrote them down.

Rich:
Yeah.

Rob:
And so now I sort of have to write them down, or do a loom and record a lot of just things that are so easy, but I’m like, I can’t believe I have to show them how to log to this website. But I know that by doing that, that means they’ll never ask me about it again. And so it’s just been really hard. And this is kind of like one of the things even with on YouTube, I had a lot of sponsors, like I had 12 in a row, and that’s usually a really good thing, right? Because it provides good income and everything.

Rich:
Yeah.

Rob:
But it required a level of organization out of me that I didn’t have, because I had to be ahead of schedule with outlining and editing and getting things back to them. And so that’s where I’m always most uncomfortable when I’m put in a position to… I guess it’s really just delegating, when I have to give something over and actually organize my thoughts in a way that makes sense, because usually it only has to make sense to me.

Rich:
Yeah. I mean, we’re huge at our company on documented processes. So just what you’re saying is… and thank goodness, because when we have someone leave or someone has to move or they take a different job or something like that, having all those documented processes. And that’s why I was saying we use Basecamp, we put all of those documented processes in there. And yeah, like you said, loom videos and screen captures and documented step one, step two and checklists, using the checklist manifesto book, kind of following that and having everything in checklist. That’s been a game changer for us.

Rob:
I mean, it’s a necessary evil, right?

Rich:
Yeah.

Rob:
I mean, I definitely recognize that too, because I often think, she’s not going anywhere, but if she did, I’d be like, oh, no, I have to redocument everything and teach them. Because even now she’s learning all the things that… now she’s documenting stuff for herself.

Rich:
Nice.

Rob:
So it’s very pivotable… not pivotable. That’s a new word that I’m working on. I’m work shopping it still. But it’s very pivotal to document stuff, that way when you do scale, the idea is she’s going to be my assistant right now, but as we continue to scale and get dozens of more properties every single year, I want her to start leading a lot of that and training the people that are coming onto the team, and training them on property management and bookkeeping and all that type of stuff. And so the idea is, if she can be really good at that, she will eventually move into the bigger role. Right? And so that does require some level of organization from both of us, so just make sure that we’re all happy and we’re all in the clear.

Rich:
And that’s huge. And one thing I’d highly recommend, and maybe you have done this already, but checking in with her and asking, where do you see yourself in three years, with me in this company? What position would you like to be in? What do you see? What do you envision? That can be huge. Well, I do that every single quarter with all the people who report to me, the five leaders in our company, and then they do the same with the people that report to them, and they ask the same thing, where do you see yourself in three years? And sometimes you’re surprised, because it’s not the same as the last quarterly conversation. They’ll say something else. But having that picture of where this person wants to go can really help you connect into that and support that dream.

Rob:
No, you’re right. We definitely don’t check in as much as we should. It is hard. Look, first of all, it’s hard to be a boss. Okay? That’s one of the difficult things with hiring a team. It’s like, okay, even if you find the correct hire, being a good boss is hard. And I recognize that. And that’s why I don’t purposely just go out and hire five people, because I could, but I want to just kind of master being decent at this whole…

Rich:
Good for you. Awesome.

Rob:
… management thing.

Rich:
Yeah.

Rob:
But it’s hard to be a boss. So we do check in. I mean, and the same thing, I have a business partner that’s running my whole real estate kind of operation, and he talks with the investors and he briefs them and he’s the one that’s sourcing deals and doing everything. And we check in a lot, but it’s hard because when you’re loosey goosey for years, it’s hard to start saying, Hey, every Monday at 2:00, we’re going to check in. And when we do, you’re right, everyone’s answers seem to be different, because I think in the world of real estate, as you grow, your goals change daily.

Rich:
Oh, for sure.

Rob:
So it’s very true that I always hear different things. I’m like, oh, I didn’t know you wanted to do that. Let me help you with that.

Rich:
Super cool. Yeah, I had a mentor who said, do you know why leaders are paid so well, and what are they paid to do? And I was like, I’m trying to think of that. He said, leaders are paid to have effective conversations. That’s the most important thing that a good leader can do. So I was like, whoa. When I really thought about it, leaders are paid to have effective conversations. So it’s exactly what you’re doing with her, what you’ll do with future employees, is have those effective conversations.

David:
So, Rich, shifting gears here a little bit, you mentioned earlier that you help people decide where to place their money. I’m assuming as leader, you have conversations with them about what their goals are and where they want to return. Can you share a little bit about which parts of the country you are most bullish on, and what types of properties you’re finding success with in those areas?

Rich:
Ever since 2003, it’s been single family homes. It’s one to four units, and we do some small apartment buildings, little ones, kind of one offs. A lot of times it’s a 1031 exchange. We help people get into those. But mostly it’s one to four units. And mostly it’s in the south Southeast, honestly. It’s like, Florida’s been huge. The Dallas area’s been great for us for many, many years. We’ve done a bunch of stuff in Pennsylvania, Ohio, North Carolina has been really good. Indianapolis. Yeah, mostly just Southeast. It’s where the people are going, where people are moving, where businesses are moving.

David:
Yeah, that’s a thing that I feel like 10 years ago, even maybe five years ago, in our space where we teach about real estate investing, the strategies were based on getting the property, the actual home or house, and how to find the right ones. You’re kind of like sifting through garbage until you’re like, there’s something valuable, and then going after it.
And with as much as the world has changed, with people moving as frequently as they move, with people traveling a lot more than they used to, it seems like more and more, we are having to stay ahead of where the crowds are going. So it’s not just about the deal, now it’s about finding the area and the deal in the area, and then trying to be a couple years ahead of the curve before all the other investors catch up and then they start buying there and then you got to go find another place. Have you noticed a similar pattern?

Rich:
Definitely, yeah. It’s like location, location, location, but timing, timing, timing. Right? So that’s the huge thing. But we really, most of the people that come to RealWealth are busy working professionals who are making a good income. They’re making a solid six figures. A lot of times they’re the Henrys, the high earners, not rich yet people, right? Because they haven’t invested their money. They haven’t put their money to work for them.
So most of the people that we work with are buy and hold for the long term. And they have a long pictured, a long vision on where they want to go with their investing. And they just want to… a lot of people come in and all they’ve done is the 401k and the stock markets, some crypto, a little of this, but they’re wanting to get out of that volatility and they’re wanting something that’s going to be a good, hard asset. And honestly, they also want the tax benefits and the depreciation. So most of the people we work with aren’t so much about the timing of the market or exact… they don’t have to be so concerned about that, because in the markets we’re going into and helping them get into, it’s just a long term, 10, 20, 30 year vision for these people.

David:
Yeah, and that, if we’re being completely honest, I think that’s the best strategy right now. Because there’s going to be some short-term volatility, interest rates are going up.

Rich:
Yeah.

David:
As human beings, anytime there is change, there’s typically like a pause. It’s kind of how we’re wired. So you’re walking through the forest, you hear a sound you’ve never heard, the first thing everyone does is freeze. What was that, right? And then, okay, nothing killed me. You start walking forward, you hear a different sound, you freeze again. And from what it looks like to me, we’re starting to see these changes happening more and more and more frequently, right? There’s a virus that’s going to kill everybody, and then that’s all we’re doing. And now that’s done. And then do we have world war III coming up?
And that while that’s going on, well, now interest rates are coming up. And at the same time, they’re printing a bunch of money. And at the same time, other countries are doing things too. And now the news is spreading this around. So we hear about it constantly much more than we ever did. So there’s a lot more pauses that are occurring. And when you take that five, 10, ideally 15, 20 year perspective, failure becomes almost impossible. It’s very difficult to fail when you go that long. But not everyone has that luxury, right? If you don’t already have a decent amount of wealth and you can play the long game, it can be really tough. Do you have any advice to the investor who’s trying to get their way into the real estate market, and this is the market that they’re trying to cut their chops on?

Rich:
Yeah, absolutely. That’s how Kathy and I got into real estate. It’s like, when in 1997, her dad had to do a 1031 exchange. He had partners who sold the apartment building he was invested in. They didn’t tell him until too late, so he didn’t have much time. And so he was at the end of his 45 days to identify a property, or he was going to pay massive taxes. So he called his five kids and just said, look, I need to buy something. And if you can find it, I’ll put the down payment, you can live in it as my tenant for now, and then later on you’ll inherit the property.
And so Kathy jumped on it. Her siblings didn’t take any action. She jumped on it, and she found a place in the San Francisco bay area that was a 4,200 square foot home, way more than we needed. We had one daughter at the time. But we house hacked back then, 1997. And this was right before, as you know, right before a nice uptick in real estate, and especially in the bay area. So we converted the lower level of that house into two different units. We even locked off the master bedroom that had an outside entrance, and turned that into a unit. So we had three units in there, and we were able to cover our mortgage and pay for that home. And that’s how we basically got into real estate, being a landlord and learning the lessons of that.
And then that house appreciated about over a hundred grand a year, year after year after year, and it went from… we got it for $547,000, that was in 1997, and when it was 2003, it got up to $1.8 million. So we did a cash out refi. We were able to pay her dad back all that money. He put the money back into the trust. And then we were able to use some of that cash to go and buy investment properties. So I think that, I think house hacking is just an awesome way to do it. It’s what we tell our daughters too, get a duplex or get a quad or something like that, and rent out the other ones. I think that’s the best way, especially when you can get an FHA loan.

Rob:
Oh, yeah. It’s so affordable to get into it these days.

Rich:
It all depends on where you are in that journey and how much money you’re making. Right?

Rob:
100%. So I actually have a bit of a tactical question here, I guess, in regards to scaling a bit, because I was actually talking to someone earlier and she was like, Hey, how do I scale? And I was like, okay, well, let’s unpack this a little bit. So we talked about sort of just establishing your initial portfolio. Try to just get into your first five properties. Right? She’s into her first one now, so I’m like, five is going to be that goal. I think that’s a good way to think about it. But at a certain point, then you’ll get to 10, and you’ll start to realize that going out and acquiring single family residences are really tough. It’s really tough to just do it all the time. It’s not super, super scalable.
And so I was like, at a certain point, like for me, where I’m at in my journey, I’m starting to run more syndications and starting funds and everything. That, to me, is the biggest way to scale in the real estate world, and really just kind of explode your portfolio, if you will.

Rich:
For sure.

Rob:
So I’m kind of curious for you, considering you do so many syndications and you’re rocking and rolling here, what is a very tactical step? Like what does that look like for someone that wants to go from, let’s say a 1031 purchase, or a single family residence, or maybe even a duplex or a house hack, how does one get to that next level of syndication? Is there a tactical way to do that, or is it just all luck? Do you just fall into a syndication?

Rich:
That’s funny. For us, it was more luck, because we had a developer come to us and say, Hey, this is after 2008, and it was this project in Portland, and the guy who was building these town homes right on the river in Portland, he had about $20 million into it. He was almost done. He owed $8 million to the bank, Lehman brothers collapsed, and we were able to come in and raise $3 million to buy him out and then finish that project. And it was incredible. Investors got over 20% return on their money.
So that was kind of like the luck one. But coming back to your question, I think the bottom line, it’s learning. It’s learning and being around people that know what they’re doing. So I think, like you said, that one person you were talking to, she’s got her first investment property, that is a game changer. That is the mindset shifter of buying your first property.

Rob:
Oh, yeah.

Rich:
For so many people. And yeah, you know this, it’s like that’s when you flick the switch and all of a sudden you go from not owning a property to being a landlord, or owning an investment property. Something happens here. And then you start to get this new self-belief about, oh, I’m going to do my second, do my third. Yeah. And single families are scalable. I mean, I know people who own a hundred single family properties and they got it all dialed in stuff, but way more than I would want. I’m happy with 20. It’s cool.

Rob:
Right. Right.

Rich:
And then you can go… Yeah. So I think a single family is a great way to start and to learn and to get your chops and all that stuff. And then it’s growing little by little. It’s like going and saying, okay, I’m going to get a small apartment. But before you do that, it’s going to these conferences, it’s listening to the podcasts. It’s reading the books. It’s not signing up for the $100,000 mastermind, it’s taking that… it’s amazing what people put in, so much knowledge and education into a book that costs 20 bucks. It drives me crazy when people are spending massive amounts of money. I have one member who came to RealWealth, and she had spent over 50 grand just on education and didn’t own a single investment property. It makes me so sad. So I think it’s getting into that first property, then learning, connecting, talking to people, going to these conferences and saying, what are you doing? And getting a mentor, honestly. That’s what it comes down to, get someone who…

Rob:
100%.

Rich:
Yeah, that’s a huge [crosstalk 00:52:59]

Rob:
Well, and I told her the same thing. I was like, look, because she was like, well, yeah, I mean, you can do a syndication, but how do I? I’m like, well, yeah, it’s going to be different for everybody, but you may not be the GP on your first syndication. You may just be an LP.

Rich:
Right.

Rob:
Put some money in it.

Rich:
Yep.

Rob:
And then, maybe on the next one you ask, Hey, can I play a very small role in that next syndication, whether maybe it’s the bookkeeping or maybe it’s the admin side of it. And you kind of work your way up. You don’t have to just start with a $50 million fund or anything like that.

Rich:
You shouldn’t. Yeah.

Rob:
You kind of go accordingly. Right, you shouldn’t.

Rich:
Yeah.

Rob:
It doesn’t work super well for the people that just jump right in. Although, I mean obviously there have been some rock stars out there.

Rich:
Yeah. But usually if you look at their backstory, it’s usually they didn’t do a $50 million syndication on day one. Right? Yeah.

Rob:
Right.

Rich:
And also there’s people who’ve done that and they’re in jail.

David:
I’ll throw this in there too. There’s more of those success stories from inexperienced people in the last five to 10 years than any other time.

Rich:
100%.

David:
Because this has been the best market ever. You can make a lot of mistakes and still make it out. And this has been known, but it’s just, you live in there long enough and it starts to feel normal. We could be coming into a time with interest rates going up, and some of the stuff we were talking about earlier with inflation making assets more expensive, but the renters that you’re going to be renting to, their ability to pay could be shrinking as their wages aren’t going up at work, but everything that they have to spend money on, gas, food, their rent, all that is going up.
I would not be surprised if we continue to see the fed raising rates. And we’re already seeing in the multifamily space, a lot of deals are falling out of escrow. People are like, yep, doesn’t work anymore. Can’t get the financing I was going to get. And just like that, either it’s re trading or it’s falling out at a pretty big level. And I would expect to see more of that. And this is kind of where that Warren Buffett quote, when the tide falls you see who’s been swimming naked. I wouldn’t be surprised if things keep going like they are, to where you see which syndicators were actually doing good work and which of these 26 year old want-trepreneurs were convincing people to lend them money, and they completely crashed and burned. So it’s kind of something the market’s been eating for a while, because it’s just been nonstop. Everyone’s hitting over and over and over.

Rich:
True.

David:
I mean, have you noticed the same thing, Rich, in the world that you operate in, just younger people without experience are still having success?

Rich:
Oh, so much. Yeah. And there’s just, being and speaking at conferences and meeting them, they come up and they say what they’re doing. And honestly it’s like, I’ve talked to some friends, like Ken McElroy is a good friend of mine, and he’s talking about how he was offloading stuff before all this started to happen. And he had sold one of his deals, and then it was a few months later and someone was pitching him on buying this deal and talking about how great it is and how he can improve it, and he can improve management and all this stuff. And it was one of the deals he sold. So it’s so crazy what’s happening. And yeah, I’m really concerned for a lot of people, especially the ones with the short term financing. That, I think, is where it’s going to really just punch them in the gut.

David:
Yeah. Well, Rich, this has been great. I really appreciate you sharing your expertise and some of your experience here. We’re going to move on to the last segment of our show. It is the world famous, famous four. In this segment of the show, we ask every guest the same four questions, and Rob and I will take turns firing them off at you.

Rich:
Nice.

David:
Question number one. What is your favorite real estate related book?

Rich:
I was going to say the book on rental property investing. I thought it was awesome. I think Brandon did a great job on that book. But my new book that just came out on 4/20, is called The Wise Investor. And it’s a modern parable about creating financial freedom and living your best life, honestly. So it’s different than a typical non-fiction. It’s a parable, it’s a story. It’s kind of like rich dad and poor dad meets the Alchemist, and Robert Kiyosaki wrote the forward for it. I’m super stoked on that.

Rob:
Oh, wow. That’s a bragging right.

Rich:
Yeah, it’s doing really well. It’s been out for a month now, more than a month, and it’s been on the best seller list every day since it came out. I’m blown away.

Rob:
All right. Question number two. Favorite business book?

Rich:
This is kind of a little bit of an unknown book, but it’s by Jim Collins and it’s called Beyond Entrepreneurship. He just came out with a new edition, but it’s been out for a long time. But it was the… a lot of these things like EOS was born from a lot of Jim Collins’ work, and a lot of [inaudible 00:57:27] work. But Beyond Entrepreneurship, by Jim Collins.

Rob:
Awesome. When you’re not writing books, scaling the culture of your company, or running syndications, what are some of your favorite hobbies?

Rich:
Oh, adventure sports. I’ve been hooked on them ever since I was little. But skiing, mountain biking, surfing, skydiving, all that fun stuff. Yeah, I just love it.

David:
In your opinion, what makes successful investors different from those who give up, fail, or never get started?

Rich:
It’s fear. It’s fear. Absolutely. Yeah. Not being able to manage fear and move forward. It’s like letting that inner gremlin run the show, and having it be in the dark and control things and pull the strings and all that stuff. So yeah, that’s it. Bottom line. It’s that inner fear. It’s that inner gremlin.

Rob:
And lastly, Rich, can you tell us about where people can find out more about you and your book, if they want to reach out to you on the internet? How can people learn more about you?

Rich:
Sure. The book is just The Wise Investor book. I’ve got my cover right here. It’s not printed yet, but that’s what it looks like.

Rob:
Oh, I love that, man. That’s a great cover.

Rich:
Thank you. So yeah, thewiseinvestorbook.com has all the information about the book. And then Instagram is just Rich Fettke, which is F-E-T-T-K-E. @RichFetkke.

Rob:
Awesome. What about you, David?

David:
You can find me @DavidGreen24, or YouTube at David Green Real Estate. I hired a company to run my social media and help make YouTube channel, so please let me have some feedback on what you guys think about how they’re doing.

Rob:
Awesome.

David:
I got to tell you, it was a huge… there’s a gremlin in my head about using emojis in my videos. Every time they would edit it and it would be like, do you want to make money? And they’d put like a little dollar sign emoji. Do you have any good ideas? And a little light bulb emoji. I was cringing. I cannot stand this. But everyone says that they like it, so I’m just curious if people could share their thoughts on how well I wear emojis is what I’m saying.

Rob:
That is TikTok speak, man. That is how it goes. I know it’s weird, but it’s the way of the millennials and the gen-Z.

David:
I had to do the same thing with my Instagram, right? It was like realtor, little house thing. Loan officer, little paper thing. And I was like, oh, I can’t stand this. But it was so many people that all said the same thing, like you have to set it up like this, that I finally gave in.

Rich:
You got to simplify though. I just watched one of your videos yesterday and it actually works because it sends that quick little signal. It just makes it easy for the brain to take in. And that’s why I wrote a parable, because it just communicates information, but it connects it in an emotional way, and so that allows it to stimulate a real change. You can just read a nonfiction book and it just kind of sometimes goes in one ear out the other, but a story completely shifts sometimes your mindset and how you see things.

David:
Oh, I totally agree with that. That’s one of the reasons I love The Richest Man in Babylon. That book is so, so good, because it communicates these principles in a way through story, which makes them stick, versus my natural communication style is just to kind of say, this is the way to do it, bam, smack you in the face with it. But it doesn’t really sink in like a story can.

Rich:
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, I love parables.

David:
And Rob, if people want to know more about you, the most interesting man in the world, this mysterious vibe that you have, how they can get a cough like yours, where can they find out more about you?

Rob:
Well, I’m very mysterious, so I’m not going to give that information out. But if I weren’t mysterious, what I would say is you can find me on Robuylt on YouTube, R-O-B-U-Y-L-T. Robuylt on Instagram, and Robuylt on the old TikTokers.

David:
Rich, I appreciate you being here. Any last words you want to leave us with before we let you go?

Rich:
Oh, last words. That’s a good one. I mean, I’m just going to come back to what I said earlier. Just being in business for as long as I have, and being a coach for as many years as I’ve been, there’s no special secret to business or growth or scaling beyond what I shared earlier, and it’s become the best version of you. When you get better, everything gets better. So work on yourself, develop yourself and grow, and then everything starts to get better.

David:
Thank you very much. Rob. Any last words from you?

Rob:
No. No, I can’t top that. That’s great.

David:
You didn’t think I was going to ask you what you thought, did you? Surprised you, and you weren’t ready, so next time you’ll have [crosstalk 01:01:44]

Rob:
Okay, how about this? My final thought, I’ll leave you with an emoji, and it’s the mind blown emoji from how much I learned from this podcast.

David:
This is why Rob is a millennial and can’t communicate a final thought, because he could only do it if he could use text so he could send an emoji. He’s like, I don’t know how to put that in words, so he literally just tried to take the picture of a mind blown thing and turn it into English, which was very difficult to do.

Rob:
It worked. It worked.

David:
We’re defaulting back into hieroglyphics as a society. [crosstalk 01:02:14] I’m waiting for the day when instead of laughing people just say LOL. That’s going to come. It’s happening. It’s on the way. Yeah.

Rob:
LOL.

Rich:
LOL.

Rob:
Oh, we do that sometimes. We’ll say LOL sometimes.

David:
All right. Well, thank you guys very much. We’ll let you get out of here. This is David Green for Rob LOL Abasolo, signing off.